From: M_Boosten (mboosten_at_email.domain.hidden)
Date: 2000-10-05 11:35:21
Barry, Peter, Tom, ...
> >...
> > - However, they start showing up when the application is roughly over
> > 600.000 lines of code, and multiple releases of the product are made:
> > changing existing code becomes intrinsicly difficult.
> > My guess is that there is a practical upper-limit of about 1M lines of
> > code, at which point people realize that they had better start from
> > scratch...
> >...
> > - The proper solution is CSP-based.
>
> Just trying to get a feel for what sort of work we need to do before we can
> make a convincing case ...
Good initiative!
> While many people believe the above, do we have any evidence - i.e. examples of
> 1M+LOC applications done with CSP? I'd guess that some of the Transputer
> applications were large but I don't remember figures much bigger than 10's
> of K LOC.
This is indeed one sort of proof.
And yes, there is such application: the WEB.
Remarkably, distributed computing seems to allow nearly infinite growth,
as long as... ...the communication protocol are simple and clear...
...there is a clear way to share data (via a channel)... and
...each process has at least practically, its own address space...
Single-threaded OO applications don't grow.
All you need to do is make a convincing case that the principles
used in the WEB are the CSP bases... FOCUS ON THE PRINCIPLES
This is the social situation: BEWARE OF IT!
- Management in Industry pays "experts" for technical advice.
(I consider myself as one of those industrial experts, people
that KNOW computing science, but also KNOW the industrial needs)
- By winning the confidence of these so-called experts, you can
cause the ideas to be accepted to solve practical problems...
the industry makes a huge profit... the ideas get popular.
- This is what such a so-called expert needs:
Convincing articles/lectures/information that show HOW and
WHY their TODAY's problems can be solved.
- Most experts are convinced that they are excellent experts:
never tell them that they have been doing stupid things in the
past: you will loose them immediately.
- Help them identify the problem area, and convince them of the
HOW and WHY of the solutions.
- Make sure the concept is SO SIMPLE that they can easily
communicate it to others.
- Note that experts like to "discover" solutions to huge problems,
becuase that's exactly what they are pays for: it strengthens
their personal position (and salary!) in industry.
My situation:
- I have talked like hell to Chief Experts.
- Some have been convinced fully.
- Some have been convinced a bit.
- Some think it is all nonsence: the rest of the World is simply
not as smart as they are, and there are more important problems.
I NEED:
- Convincing, short, simple, single-subject articles that convince
to lead to solution of industrial problems.
I'm WILLING:
- To indicate PRACTICAL industrial problems (to bring them to life for
the acadamics)
- To give my critical "Industrial" view on those articles.
Note:
- Industry has got other problems as well: problems with a
CSP-based solution might be just in the TOP 10 of problems...
Do not think it is top priority: it definitely IS NOT!
The loss of EUR 100,000 yesterday because of some stupidity
GETS full attention.
- CSP-based solutions require a significant INVESTMENT.
- CSP-based solutions are considered to be LONG TERM investments.
- Solving yesterdays problem IS TODAYS concern, avoiding the
situation will give IMMEDIATE benefit.
- Management is focussed on PROBLEM SOLVING instead of PROBLEM AVOIDANCE.
NOTE:
- My time is limited.
- My industry pays for every e-mail I sent to this list.
- I spent this time because I expect SIGNIFICANT RESULTS (the convincing
articles) in the SHORT TERM from my comments here
- Being accused of "wasting time" is one of the experts worst
nightmares: it leads to disrespect in the job, which has an
nearly immediate financial and functional drawback.
- I'll soon be fad up if nobody GRABS the OPPORTUNITY I'm offering.
Yes, I'm quite frustrated!
(Cheers,)
Marcel
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